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ori ?

topic posted Mon, March 21, 2011 - 6:23 PM by  moon
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What is a ori? When are you able to get an ori ?
posted by:
moon
New York City
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  • Re: ori ?

    Mon, March 21, 2011 - 7:12 PM
    I've heard ori literally means head,,,however it goes deeper it seems

    here's a link with info yorubaonline.com/ori2.htm#
    • Re: ori ?

      Mon, March 21, 2011 - 9:53 PM
      Yes, "ori" does literally mean "head". Within the framework of the religion of Ifa and its derivatives, the head is believed to be the seat of the soul, so "ori" also has connotations of "soul" (although the Yoruba word for soul is "emi"). Since the soul resides in the head, the head itself is considered sacred and subject to ceremonies intended to protect and strengthen it and the soul within.

      Elaine
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: ori ?

        Tue, March 22, 2011 - 5:51 AM
        Hi Moon - Ori is something you already have. Everyone is born with Ori. Some say that Ori is an Orisa. Others say its that gut feeling that tells you when somethings not right.

        There is an old post (below) on the babalawo tribe that touches on the concept of Ori.

        tribes.tribe.net/babalawo/...e30e23bcf9

        Jay -
  • Re: ori ?

    Tue, March 22, 2011 - 10:09 AM
    The "ori" in the Orisha is the same as the "SE" in vodun. It is a spirit...represented by the dove or white pigeon. The Se is our soul and constitutes our destiny. A divine part of our being it sets behind the eyes and in ALL vodun priests/priestesses our heads are always covered to protect the SE. You will see the same covering in the Jews. We are all born with SE. If the Se is damaged or manages to leave the body because of BAD ceremonies (which often happens when employing incompetent priests/priestesses) the body will eventually expire in time...

    Wedosi
    • Re: ori ?

      Sun, April 3, 2011 - 6:01 AM
      Peace Wedosi,

      It's interesting to learn about the similarities between different traditional African religions. One important thing to note, however, is that in the Orisha tradition (all variants), Ori NEVER abandons a person due to "bad" ceremonies...although things can be thrown out of whack due to a bad ceremony.
      • Re: ori ?

        Mon, April 4, 2011 - 3:34 PM
        "Ori NEVER abandons a person due to "bad" ceremonies.."

        That is not true my dear. We encounter this problem much. Improper ceremonies can inadvertenly push a ori/se out of the body. We had one young man who came to us after 5 years in Nigeria. He had many issues in his life. It was discovered that his ori/se was trapped in a tree in Nigeria. My husband traveled there and spent 5 days in the jungle to take his ori from the tree. He had to bring it back to the temple, bathe and feed it BEFORE we could complete his divination. Another young woman is walking around, today, without her ori/se because she refused to do the ceremonies. We are PRACTIONERS of Vodun not theorists. I only speak of what I know not of what I THINK!

        These types of spiritual problems abound because of incompetent folk. That is WHY I am such an avid crusader of proper training. I see the mess left by these folk!

        Wedosi
        • Re: ori ?

          Tue, April 5, 2011 - 4:49 PM
          Like I said, in Orisha tradition...not Vodoun...what a wonderful thing that your husband was able to rescue the Ori from a tree. :-/
          • Re: ori ?

            Wed, April 6, 2011 - 2:07 AM
            idowu...Since you do.. not know....vodun and orisha is the SAME! It is about spirits (that which is SACRED); and, in Africa (the source) it is ALL the same! Most diasporans simply do not understand this! And, in Africa, most if not ALL priests are trained to do this! The fact that folks, in the diaspora, are not aware that one's ori can be pushed out or can be rescued speaks for itself... Few of you have the knowledge or understand anything about spirits! An African Priest is a totally different animal than a diasporan priest or priestess.


            Wedosi
            • Re: ori ?

              Wed, April 6, 2011 - 3:20 AM
              On this matter I defer to Odu and Yoruba mythology - which clearly state that Ori is the only Orisha that will never abandon a person. Africa is not today, nor has ever been homogenous in religious/spiritual thought. Less time spent knowing it all leaves more time to master one.

              Moon, if you ever sit for a reading in the Yoruba tradition and the priest says your Ori is gone...seek advice elsewhere.

              Dofona
              • Re: ori ?

                Wed, April 6, 2011 - 7:53 AM
                idowu...My dear...look at what you have said....mythology. I live in Africa. My voduns transverse several African continents...Nigeria (Ogboni)...Benin (Agassou)...Togo &Ghana (Ashanti/Mami Watas/Chamba)...South Africa (Age with accent over the e). My husband and I have the largest Mami temple (in numbers), on the west Coast of Africa, with 580 plus vodunsi strong. I lived in African temples for over 8 years before I ever stepped foot back in the United States. I trained and was initiated by the Supreme Chef Du Vodun himself Dagbo Hounon Houna BEFORE his death and numerous other priests. Initiations in Nigeria, Benin, Togo and Ghana. My husband....Chef Supreme du Vodun Mami Wata travels the entire west coast of Africa and South Africa doing vodun. And, you want to school me on what?That nonsense you have learned from an anthropologist book is nonsense...written by folk from the outside looking in who has no real understanding of the culture.

                Wedosi
                • Re: ori ?

                  Wed, April 6, 2011 - 8:17 AM
                  Hi, All!

                  This dialog regarding wayward Ori reminds me of the Siberian shamanic practice of "soul-retrieval". The belief is that the soul can become "fractured" as a result of spiritual, emotional, or even physical trauma, leaving a person to feel "disconnected", "incomplete", "disoriented". The role of the Shaman is to then enter into the Spirit World to retrieve and re-integrate these pieces of a person's soul.

                  Interesting...

                  Elaine
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: ori ?

                    Wed, April 6, 2011 - 8:44 AM
                    Interesting..I actually read a book that spoke of that Elaine..It was a fictional book but was about exactly what you wrote.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: ori ?

                    Wed, April 6, 2011 - 12:49 PM
                    You are correct Elaine. Many things can happen to the ori/se/soul. Seasoned practitioners are aware of these things while others can only guess. The shaman or in this case the African priest or priestess must perform the same task. But it is very intricate work. One must be seasoned, skilled and have an intimate relationship with the spirits to be able to do such.

                    Wedosi
                • Re: ori ?

                  Wed, April 6, 2011 - 11:45 AM
                  Wedosi, do we know each other? I don't proclaim to know Vodoun, Mami Wata or Se. I do, however, know my tradition and none of that is anthropological. Yoruba tradition, Odu, Itan, Pataki, mythology or whatever we call it teaches us some very specific things about Ori. Ori abandoning someone falls outside of Yoruba belief. I made a mistake in addressing you in my first post; I should have written directly to Moon.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: ori ?

                    Wed, April 6, 2011 - 12:55 PM
                    idowu says " I should have written directly to Moon. "

                    I agree, my dear, because when you discuss, with me, it is often wise to know exactly what you are talking about or at least sit quietly and try to learn. Take care...

                    Wedosi
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: ori ?

    Sat, April 2, 2011 - 8:04 AM
    HI...my understanding (i received Ori a while ago) is Ori means Head (the Physical)..Ori inu is the inner head or personality (but much deeper...a spark /part of Olorun..or Olodumare if you wish to use that terminology). Iponri is the double of Ori inu in heaven..a very high divine part ....not connected to our animalistic or human nature. Ori is also your destiny for this embodiment ...it is at once your divine spark but also the plan for this lifetime(it is at once your soul if i can say that...and a being which represents your destiny)....which you must follow to obtain spiritual and also materialistic satisfaction.

    Without having received the ori though ceremony...you of course already have it anyways..you have an inner spark of divinity (soul)..you have a destiny...and you have divine aspect untouched/undefiled by earth..etc.

    The ceremony is at a river...in my lineage and also at all or most lineages i assume.


    See a good babalawo in your area to see if you need to receive it. fyi..when you receive it you will not have to put sacrificial materials for head cleaning on your head ..you can just present it to your physical ori..(what you will receive) ...


    Good Luck..Ire.

    Opewale
    • Re: ori ?

      Sun, April 3, 2011 - 6:14 AM
      It's always interesting to see how things evolve. About 10 years ago, if someone asked a question about "receiving" Ori, they were laughed at, told it was an "invento," that there was no such ceremony, that the priest saying they could perform such ceremony was a charlatan. Now, everyone and their mama has received some variation of a ceremony to consecrate Ori.

      First things first, we are all BORN with Ori. You don't "get" or "receive" it. What you receive is a consecrated object that is generally referred to as either Igba or Ile Ori. The only Orisha tradition that maintained a ceremony to consecrate the igba in the diaspora is Candomble. That doesn't mean other traditions don't praise and take care of the head; obviously they do through rogaciones, songs, oriki, etc. Even Nigerian babalawos are VERY picky about performing this ceremony (tradtionally, anyway...it seems these days the final word is left to Baba Dollar Bill) because it used to be reserved for royalty and awos.

      My advice...don't focus on being a pot collector. Establish a relationship with your Ori by simply taking time to meditate and become more in tune with yourself.

      Good luck!
      Dofona
      • Re: ori ?

        Sun, April 3, 2011 - 8:28 AM
        Great reply, Idowu!

        Now I have a general academic question to whomever wishes to respond... Isn't it the purpose of Osun to watch over, guide and protect our Ori? If so (and providing that a person is acknowledging and keeping his head-ori cleansed and strong), what would be the point of anyone "receiving ori" (in the form of a consecrated object), be he prince, prophet, or pauper?

        I understand (and I use the word "understand" lightly) how an orisha can "be born" from one's godparent's orisha; is something similiar done to link one's head-ori with an object? If so, what would happen if someone else got a hold of that object -- wouldn't the person be at terrible risk?

        Curious,

        Elaine
        • Re: ori ?

          Sun, April 3, 2011 - 5:53 PM
          Elaine,

          I'm glad you brought up Osun! It seems like many Santeros have forgotten the role Osun plays when Igba Ori became commercialized in the US via Candomble. From what I understand, Lukumi is the only diasporic tradition that consecrates Osun in this way - as warriors are distinctively Cuban in conceptual origin. With rogaciones and Osun, it's very unclear to me why a Santero would need to consecrate an Igba when Lukumi has ceremonies that take care of the head - and have served very well for a couple hundred years.

          Your other question about "birthing Orisha," with regard to Igba Ori would be inappropriate, IMO, to get into here. Suffice it to say you're looking at the Lukumi way of performing a ceremony that isn't Lukumi.

          Dofona
          • Re: ori ?

            Sun, April 3, 2011 - 6:43 PM
            Hi, Dofona!

            Thank you for addressing my question! As for the second part, don't worry about the details since, based upon your reply, the ceremony is NOT similiar to other orisha-related ceremonies, and thus, I don't need to know! <big grin>

            Blessings...

            Elaine
  • Re: ori ?

    Mon, April 4, 2011 - 2:58 PM
    Motumba everyone,

    I'm from Candomble, Iyawo of Osala (Obatala). My nation is Efon, descending via Ase Pantanal and Waldomiro Xango.

    Moon, Dofona is right - there is a tendency for people to look at a Lukumi way of performing ceremonies that aren’t Lukumi at all. This is not just related to Ori but to other orishas that were brought into Lukumi from Candomble also. We do things very different....

    Even in Candomble, where the Ori (Bori) ceremony originated that some Lukumi lineages perform, Ori is not always settled. Some nations do, some don't. Even the nations who settle Ori don't really settle Ori - that’s because we are all born with a head already! What is settled in many father’s Ile Ase is a real mystery that should not be discussed openly, but its not called Ori. My own Igba Ori (and in all honesty, we don't even call it that in my nation and Ile Ase) contains different elements to what the Lukumi Ori contains - and yes, I have had a chance to discover what is given as Ori in Lukumi and its a bit puzzling! Lets keep in mind that B’Ori is a very moving and beautiful ceremony - and it was not commercialized in the US via Candomble but via Lukumi.

    I have done extensive research on Ori settlements and the concepts in Brazil and Nigeria are related, but with Lukumi it becomes something very different. I know some old Lukumi priests who have told me that in Cuba Ori was "given" similar to the way it is done in Nigeria and Candomble, but this ceremony has really died out a very long time ago - or it is kept very secret and hidden.

    Someone in the US mentioned to me that the purpose of receiving Ori or doing the B'Ori ceremony is "to awaken Ori" but I believe this to be a misconception, because our Ori doesn't sleep....


    I hope this is helpful
    Iyawo Osala
    • Re: ori ?

      Wed, April 6, 2011 - 3:28 AM
      Motumbaxe, Motumba Iyawo Osala!

      I'm curious to know what your Ile calls an Igba Ori. I did my first Bori with an Iya from Efon and she called it Igba Ori. She also consecrated an Igba for several Lukumis. If I'm not mistaken, she is a descendant of Pai Bahiano as well.

      Are you American or Brazilian? Living where? It's great to know another Iyawo de nação!

      Bjs,
      Dofona
  • Re: ori ?

    Mon, August 15, 2011 - 10:38 AM
    Aboru Aboye Abosise
    Ori is the "Head". Ori is an Orisa, and a very powerful and important one.
    Odu Ifa Ogunda Meji teaches us: Ko s'orisa ti i da ni i gbe lehin ori eni -- no Orisa help an individual without the consent of his or her Ori.
    Also in Odu Ifa Ogunda Meji, IFA teaches us that Ori is the only Orisa that can be with us and accompany us through all of life's journeys.
    Odu Ifa Irete Ofun teaches us:
    Ko si Orisa to to nii gbe
    Leyin Ori eni
    Ori gbona j'Orisa

    No other Orisa can give support
    Outside of one's Ori
    Ori is higher then all Orisa.
    Ase

    We are born with Ori, but we also can (and should) receive the physical shrine for Ori. Receiving Ori is a very powerful ceremony. I received Ori in Nigeria. It was profound. I feel that receiving Ori helps align one with their inner self (Ori Inu) and with their higher self (Iponri).
    Here is a very good video on concepts surrounding Ori: www.youtube.com/watch
    Also here is a very good article on Ori worship: www.rootsandrooted.org/

    IFA also says about Ori:
    Orunmila lo dohun a-dun-hun-un
    Emi naa lo dohun a-dun-hun-un
    Orunmila ni begbe eni ba n lowo
    Ba a ba a ti i ni in
    Ifa ni ka ma dun huun-huun-huun
    Ori elomii mo
    Ori eni ni ka maa dun huun
    Orunmila ni begbe eni ba n n’ire gbogbo
    Ba a ba a ti I ni in
    Ori eni ni ka maa dun hun-un
    Orii mi gbami
    Mo dun huun aje mo o
    Orii mi gbami
    Mo du huun ire gbogbo mo o
    Ori apere
    a-sakara-moleke
    eni Ori ba gbebo re
    ko yo sese
    Ase

    Orunmila said complaint, complaint, complaint…
    I said it is all complaint
    Orunmila said if ones colleagues are rich
    If we are not yet rich
    Ifa said we should not complain
    To another person's Ori
    We should complain to our own Ori
    Orunmila said if one's colleagues are getting
    all the good things of life
    If we have not got...
    We should complain only to our Ori
    My Ori, deliver me
    I complain of money to you
    My Ori deliver me
    I complain of all the good things of life to you
    Ori nicknamed apere. Nicknamed A-sakara-moleke
    Whoever’s offering is accepted by their Ori
    Should really rejoice.
    Ase

    Hope this helps and check out that video and the linked article. If anyone would like to further discuss Ori, feel free to contact me via email -- OyekuOfun@yahoo.com

    Ire O
    Fagbemijo Amosun Fakayode
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: ori ?

    Thu, August 25, 2011 - 4:52 PM
    Ori is your heavenly identity; it symbolizes your fullest potential. You select your Ori prior to birth when you are conceived. Olodumare seals the Ori you've chosen for each life.

    You don't "get" an Ori; without Ori you would have no consciousness, no personality.

    Ori is central to Yoruba, Lukumi, and Candomble theologies. The Cuban "rogacion" descends from the larger ceremony that the Candombles have maintained known as B'Ori (ebo ori). The Brazilian Yoruba also consecrate an igba to each person's Ori, but this is not the same as seating an Orisha.

    Some Lukumi lineages have reclaimed the B'Ori ceremonies from Candomble (my own being one of them), and having gone through the B'Ori ceremonies myself, I can say that it grounds you in such inexplicable ways, but is essential to undergo if you plan on being a serious Orisha devotee; either ab'orisha or olorisha alike. But allow me to reiterate...you do not NEED to consecrate an igba Ori in order to placate and make offerings to your Ori...you have a head on your shoulders for that! :)

    The relationship between Ori and Orisha is very complex and "deep" - and unlike Orisha, every person only has one, unique Ori.

    I hope this was helpful.

    Peace,

    Jim / Ogun Funmito
    • Re: ori ?

      Thu, August 25, 2011 - 8:26 PM
      Alaafia Ogun Funmike,

      I'm glad you chimed in. Just to clarify, not all Candomble Nago lineages/nations seat an igba during the Bori...and not all Boris include an igba, even in lineages that do seat them.

      Ire,
      Dofona
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: ori ?

        Thu, August 25, 2011 - 10:30 PM
        Thank you for the clarification! :) I'm still learning about Candomble from a friend in the Ketu tradition, I'm amazed on a daily basis how beautiful both systems are when compared.

        I hope I did not accidentally offend you, or indeed anyone, with my post. I meant everything from a progressive perspective. :)

        Agbe mi!

        Jim / Ogun Funmito
        • Re: ori ?

          Fri, August 26, 2011 - 3:36 AM
          Ki Osun a gbe o. Alaafia,

          No offense taken at all. I remember you from a while back online, and it's nice to see people around who have experience with traditions that goes beyond the theoretical. How nice to have a Ketu friend...there are quite a few of them out there in the bay, so I hear ;-) maybe one day you'll get to make it to Brazil if you haven't yet already.

          Dofona
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: ori ?

            Fri, August 26, 2011 - 9:08 AM
            Thanks again Dofona!!

            I actually haven't been to Brazil yet, but I definitely want to visit before my time on Earth is up. :) Espeically to Bahia...hopefully one day soon!

            Much respect,

            Jim / Ogun Funmito
            • Re: ori ?

              Sun, September 11, 2011 - 11:33 AM
              I would also like to know more about the difference in Ori as the 'head" used to describe one's path in Orisha worship and/or Ifa. And, actually being told that you have Ori as an Orisha. All comments are welcome...
              • Re: ori ?

                Mon, September 12, 2011 - 3:41 PM
                Ori is Ori regardless of whether the diviner is a Babalawo (Ifa) or Babalorisa (Orisha). If someone tries to convince you that Ori is your Orisa in the same way Osun, Sango, Osoosi, etc would be....please run for the hills.
                • Re: ori ?

                  Mon, September 12, 2011 - 8:56 PM
                  Ori is above orisha. the orishas them selves had ori that they had to answer to. orisha roughly translate to push or guide Ori. and the moment your ori leaves you, you in your physical form have nothing to worry about anymore because you have died and gone to heaven. oyekun meyi is one of the signs that talks about the connect to the human body and ori and how they will be together from begining (birth) to end (death) on earth but ori will continue to live in Olorun (heaven). the orisha are meant to help guide our ori on earth. but the word of ori is above orisha. some people say the chain of command is Olodumare odu Ori orisha and egun. somepeople say that its olodumare odu ori egun and orisha
    • Re: ori ?

      Wed, October 26, 2011 - 12:00 AM
      Motumba Jim and all,

      I don't come online to read a lot of posts and I'm usually slow in replying - my Obatala is very old and slow and I'm no different in many ways...lol

      One of my friends in Lukumi asked me about Igba Ori the other day, and I find it difficult to articulate what Ori actually means and what it is for us in Candomble. Many years ago I was able to see an Igba Ori prepared by one of the Lukumi lineages and I've also shows a picture of a Lukumi Igba Ori to people in Brazil (a pic from the late Afolabi's website, Mystic Curio). Everybody, and I mean really everybody in Brazil asked me "What its this supposed to be?" when looking at the photo mysticcurio.tripod.com/images/ori.jpg

      I don't know what happened when Lukumi "reclaimed" Igba Ori, and sometimes I wonder if this is just to add another pot to the collection. Please forgive my sarcasm, but I have been around Lukumi for many years and one of the reasons why I initiated in Candomble is because the level of spirituality in Candomble compared to Lukumi is quite different. We don't focus on pots, we focus on Orisha. There is no "you need 65 stones and 23 antlers and 57 spears and 87 bangles plus 44 machetes and if thats not inside your orisha tureen then better throw it out cause its wrong..."

      Having been able and fortunate enough to talk to Lukumi who have participated in a B'Ori in Brazil and then re-created a B'Ori ceremony in their rama "Lukumi style", and having been able to find out what goes inside the Lukumi Igba Ori of that particular rama, it seams that there is again a list of "one size fits all and if you don't have those pits and pieces inside your Igba Ori then its just wrong and false and fake and you better throw it out and have another one made by me...for double the price of course". I've even seen a post on tribe from 2005 where someone talks about a "legitimate Lukumi B'Ori ceremony". To me, thats like talking about a skying holiday in Egypt!

      In Candomble, we don't ask people to give us Igba Ori, we ask to "take b'ori". Again, the focus is on celebrating and honouring our destiny, not receiving a pot. My nation is Efon and we give Igba Ori. I have friends in Ketu who do not give or receive Igba Ori for various reasons. Also, we keep out Igba Ori in the Ile Ashe, in the temple under lock and key to be watched over by our mother or father.

      B'Ori is not something you do to get a pot that can go on a shelve. Igba Ori is not maintained by putting some food on now and then. The B'Ori ceremony is redone regularly or when needed, no matter if a person has Orisha made or not.

      Yoruba spirituality tells us that we do not select our own Ori. It is given to us and then it is our choice to live in harmony with what we received. It is up to us to seal the blessing or to smooth the osogbo by making ego in heaven before we come to earth. If we neglect making ego in heaven, we still have a chance to make ebo on earth. It is Obatala Ajala who "prepares" the Ori for us, he assembles the pieces so to speak. After we receive ori from Ajala, we are advised to see Orunmila in heaven for divination before embarking on our journey to earth. This is when we are told what ebo to make.

      Sorry for the ramble, but I'm very passionate about Candomble, Its very diverse, deep and secretive. But there is just as much issues with it as there is in other religions. Ori is a mystery of Orisha and B'Ori is a ceremony of Candomble. I'm somewhat annoyed about the "legitimate Lukumi B'Ori" I have seen from some Santeria people, because it is a slap in the face of Candomble to say "We are Lukumi, our B'Ori is legitimate, we do it different then Candomble because we need to show those Candomble people how its really done because they lost some of the mysteries"...no joke, this is really what was told to me by some Lukumi people from Miami!
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: ori ?

        Wed, October 26, 2011 - 9:18 AM
        No need to apologize for rambling, it was a great post. :)

        I also appreciate your candor in addressing the current "Lukumi B'Ori" as I'm directly related to one of the "reclaimers" of it. Needless to say, it's a very hot topic and one that the larger Orisha communities are not happy about. It's one of the many reasons I stay away from religious politics.

        I completely understand your points of view. I belong to an Umbanda terreiro, and even though it's not the same as Candomble, it's added a much larger perspective to not only how I view and work with spirits/Iwin, but also how I relate to my Orishas.

        I agree there is a lot of "reform" that should occur in Lukumi to keep it more in tune with Orisha and not with making money off of people. It also doesn't help when you consider the Cuban hegemonic attitude that theirs is the ONLY way to make and seat Orisha (as if!).

        But just so you're aware (I'm assuming this is Maria since you didn't sign off your email)...not all Lukumis are happy with the rama that "reclaimed" the Igba Ori. The fact that the theology behind why one would seat an Igba (I learned in Ketu nation you never have an Igba Ori until you've completed at least your seventh year obligations...and like your nation, the Igba lives at the terreiro) has been ignored and just trying to "assimilate" it into the Lukumi dogma and cosmology is rather offensive. But c'est la vie...they were doing this kind of stuff in Africa long before any Oloshas hit American or Carribean soil. Doesn't mean it should continue, but just saying, this is just one thing in a larger host of issues that Lukumi faces as it continues to grow into a global religion.

        Thanks again for sharing your nation's viewpoints. I love how each Nation in Candomble is shown equal respect (at least by those Candomble Oloshas I've met).

        My pai from the Umbanda terreiro says the only thing the Lukumis "lost" - in regards to Ori and the B'ori turned to Rogacion - are the chants and songs specific to Ori. It also is no surprise that this one concept of the religion is so misunderstood by Lukumis - but like you said, if it's not one size fits all, or isn't a means to make cash off a godchild, it's not "real!" LOL

        Take care,

        Jim / Ogun Funmito
        • Re: ori ?

          Thu, October 27, 2011 - 12:20 AM
          Good Morning Jim,

          Thanks for the very kind response. There is a very interesting book out, called The Devil and the Land of the Holy Cross: Witchcraft, Slavery, and Popular Religion in Colonial Brazil, written by Laura de Mello e Souza. Besides talking about the early European influences on Brazilian culture, the book also takes a look at the differences between Portuguese and Spanish colonialism. Its a really interesting read, especially if you compare Candomble (grown on colonial Portuguese soul) and Santeria (grown on Spanish colonial soul). There are real differences in the way these two colonial powers treated gender, sexuality, power and religion and these differences are very much reflected in Candomble and Santeria. It also talks about the large size of Brazil. This obviously has an influence in the mentality of people (the vastness of Brazil vs Cuban Island mentality). Understanding culture always helps in understanding religion...

          I personally appreciate Umbanda very much. When I was in Miami some years ago a friend took me along to a Palo cahon and I was very surprised about the similarities with some of the Umbanda practices I've seen. But again, there are hundreds of thousands of Umbanda houses in Brazil and the neighbouring countries and each house has its own flavour and practice. What they all have in common tho is love for the spirits. The biggest difference I have seen between Umbanda and Palo is that Palo dominates the spirits whereas Umbanda asks the spirits for cooperation. I would personally encourage everyone to get involved with Umbanda if they have a chance because it teaches spirituality. Unfortunately there is a lot of mixing going on, where a lot of Candomble initiates who have not been able to make godchildren in Candomble or just simply can't be bothered to study and learn just open an Umbanda house. There are some very interesting Umbanda creations in Brazil these days...

          And no, this is not Maria Pimpa, but someone else from the Efon nation :-)

          best,
          Iyawo Oshalufon.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: ori ?

            Thu, October 27, 2011 - 4:02 PM
            Okuo iyawo!

            Thank you very much for the book recommendation, I will definitely pick up a copy for my library.

            I agree with you about how Umbanda and Palo are very similar. My Pai teaches about the various "spectrums" of practice and philosophy in Umbanda. His particular terreiro is of the Kongo-derived Umbanda houses; we work with the seven main lines of spirits and focus especially in our terreiro on the three roots of umbanda.

            I will be attending my first gira next weekend. I had my head washed three weeks ago and was initiated/welcomed into the terreiro. I am really looking forward to learning how to finally work with spirits. :)

            Sorry about assuming you were Maria, I didn't mean to be rude! hehe

            Take care and thanks again for the book recommendation!

            Peace,

            Jim
            • Re: ori ?

              Sat, October 29, 2011 - 2:48 PM
              Awure Babaci, Alaafia Jim,

              Just wanted to chime in with a bit of caution. Within the Orisa branches of candomble, there are several sub-branches. Can we be very specific when discussing things so as not to mis-speak? I find that there's so much misinformation about candomble in the US and online, and lots of confusion about what is and what isn't. I think being very specific can help cut down on that confusion.

              Efon, as a nation, doesn't have any sub-lineages as far as I understand (Babaci, correct me if I'm wrong. I know there are Efon houses that incorporate the role of a babalawo now; would you say this is a type of sub-lineage? )...so it's easier to generalize what does and doesn't happen - or what is and what isn't acceptable in Efon. Ketu, however, is much more diverse than Efon...having 3 lineages within the nation. So, while it may be true that some Ketu lineages don't seat an igba ori or only seat it after the 7 year obligation, this isn't true for ALL Ketu lineages (or houses within the lineage, for that matter!). In a case like this where practices can vary widely, I think it's helpful to say, for example, Iya Nasso doesn't seat...instead of Ketu doesn't. With the growth of candomble in the US, an abiyan could think they are experiencing something "off" if they are in a Ketu house that seats an igba because of something they read.

              Ire,
              Dofona
              • Re: ori ?

                Sat, October 29, 2011 - 4:03 PM
                Dofona,

                Apologies for my spelling! I'm using a Mac and it doesn't like Yoruba terminology or names! But yes, you are absolutely right in what you're saying! But even in what people would call "sub lineages" there are differences in practice. I have friends from Opo Afonja, Casa Branca, Ase Osumare and from Candomble Angola who don't seat Igba Ori. On the other hand I have friends from the sale "lineages" who do. This has to do with people starting out in one lineage and then moving to another lineage or even nation - for example after a father or mother passes and the godchildren have to find another elder to take care of their Ori.

                B'Ori is never the firs step a person should take. There are readings, ebos etc that always come before. A B'Ori is like a commitment and nobody should commit to anything if a Babalorisha or Iyalorisha haven't proven that they are knowledgeable and that a person's life actually improves from the work they have done by the priest or priestess. I'm weary of people why try to sell big ceremonies to people without offering other remedies for problems. Of course there are situations where a person would have to do a B'Or and not just an ebo, but none the less only with a person who can show knowledge and bring positive change into the consultant's life over some time.

                As to Babalawos and Brazil, please don't get me started....lol! Some years ago I met an Umbanda priest who talked about his Babalawo in Brazil. It took me a while to work out that the person was actually talking about his Pai de Santo who likes to be called Babalawo...to impress people with the big title and supposed knowledge. Babalawos in Brazil are still a very touchy topic and a lot of people like to use the terms Babalorisha and Balalawo interchangeably...its something that I find very irritating. I had many arguments in the past with people in Brazil about this but Ifa in Brazil is the new big thing - its been for a couple of years and most of it its actually really hideous!

                Iyawo Osalufon
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: ori ?

                Tue, November 1, 2011 - 10:20 AM
                Thanks for the clarifications Dofona! I'm still learning about Candomble and Umbanda, so I do apologize if I've made any erroneous assumptions. :)

                Jim

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