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Is everybody well?

topic posted Thu, October 12, 2006 - 7:29 PM by  Unsubscribed
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Hi. Is everybody well today?
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  • Re: Is everybody well?

    Thu, October 12, 2006 - 8:22 PM
    I'm just lovely, thank you...

    How are you?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Is everybody well?

      Sun, October 15, 2006 - 9:17 AM
      I'm doing good, thank you.

      Can I share something?

      Iyanifa cast divination oracle for me, and told me about some things I picked up while moving around the U.S. and how there is a lot of work to do to get myself on path and also get some very serious stuff off of me.

      Today, or else soon, I'm going to walk over to the lake in city park and throw in the Olokun and the more "warrior" side of 'Yemaya,' that was made by an old Santera (pure old-style Santeria - not Lukumi) in Mexico and while Orunmila said to keep Osun she made, I should put Yemaya in the lake. Olokun, she is so beautiful; Yemaya, she is so beautiful. But I have to do this. This is Ase that is powerful, a few times I made the mistake of touching the Olokun shell... this is too powerful Ase for me, I do not know how to take care of her well enough. Even though I have had her five years, Orunmila says I have to put her in the lake. I am crying it is a great personal loss, but there is good reason and I will do this maybe not today but soon.

      And hey thanks for this website and for putting up with me.

      -Eric
      • Re: Is everybody well?

        Sun, October 15, 2006 - 9:33 AM
        Ase eric,

        This is so strange. If you have received it and it does have Ashe (you can feel it) why throw away? I only heard of discarding things that were "fake". Then the priest/ess who says you should , he/she should take care of it, fixing or whatever.

        Anyway, if you are throwing it away, and if it is the pots (soperas) which are beautiful, you can keep them, they are just containers, and perhaps receive it later.

        Anyway, pure Mexican Santeria would not have Olokun, Yemaya-these are Lukumi names (or Yoruba names, something that did not survive in Mexico.

        ase,

        Maria d'Osala
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Is everybody well?

          Sun, October 15, 2006 - 10:17 AM
          Ase Maria.

          I know this is strange. I want to have it re read to see if I can keep Olokun, but I figure Orunmila would somehow let me know. It is a huge Olukun shell, decorated and fed alongside a saint statue in silver chains, my understanding is that she is not Yamoja but rather an orisha that floats above the water, Yemaya, and from the way she is chained I suspect this aspect was born in the slave ships. Here this Yemaya and Olokun were both fed on the same plate. Yes it's just a little mixed up having them both on the same plate and there are some other strange things about them too, but it is real strong Ase and she came into my life during a really difficult, fighting time, and I don't need her anymore. I want to have it divined again if I should keep Olokun and just put Yemaya, who is in the form of a chained black catholic saint, into a large body of water. It is a beautiful art piece but does not contain that powerful Ase well.

          Or, maybe this was "fake" and was something else entirely, I didn't think to ask - but you would know immediately that this is Olokun, everybody who has been near her has just been amazed.

          After a couple of night of sleeping on it, my Ori revealed that if I ever need her, I can just go place offerings in the lake, so that made me feel pretty much fine. I would put her in the ocean but there are none anywhere close to me!

          Another person, a Babalawo, divined that the Irunmole that watches over me is Osun of the rivers, and now Orunmila says I should keep Osun (made by that same Santera). Talk about beautiful.

          By the way, Yemaya is everywhere in Mexico! She is HUGE! She's even featured on the "seven African powers" candles that are sold in every single grocery store. And there are thousands of stores dedicated just for her, even all over the U.S. This is never is the rich areas or white areas, so you don't see it on Hollywood TV but it's at least half of the U.S. I believe the Yoruba culture survived to some extent every place there are decendents of slaves.

          Another possibility (again I didn't think to ask) is the way I received it, which wasn't a crowning or anything close.

          But I think the entire creation is just too sizzle-pop hot, it made sense for me to have it when I lived in a real violent area, but it doesn't make sense for her to be here.

          Thank you for writing me, I hope you have a nice day.

          -Eric
          • Re: Is everybody well?

            Sun, October 15, 2006 - 3:20 PM
            Alafia

            I find the last few posts here very confusing .............Iyanifa's that cast Opele ?? olokun and Yemaya on the same plate a Olokun shell with ASE ???

            Yemaya chained a aspect born of slave ships ???


            ERIC , papo beware of people inventing stuff ..... TO many times we see people who are seeking guidence and wisdom only to be taken on a rollercoaster ride by someone like a hawk searching for those that are gullable to take advantage of ....

            Word of wisdom .... if it sounds to good to be true ...THEN it is to good to be true

            Tomas
            • Re: Is everybody well?

              Sun, October 15, 2006 - 4:42 PM
              Eric,

              Mexico like any country...has been seriously affected by US midia...
              What slaves in MEXICO? Yoruba slaves in Mexico???

              Read about the Seven African powers in other Internet foruns. It is NEW, Largely Caribbean, but it really was put up in the US of A .

              I'll check for its story around...

              Ase,

              Maria d'Osala
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                Re: Is everybody well?

                Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:20 AM
                Seven African Powers originate from here in the USA? I always thought it was from Mexico. The candle's spread there. That's interesting.

                I know you think I am crazy, but I am positive nobody's made up anything here. No, never seen anything written on this on the internet or books either, but I'm not lying, it's just that portion that's not written into history but is very much alive.

                About slaves in Mexico, my understanding is that almost nobody in Mexico does not have some African blood; I do not know the slave history there, didn't the Spanish haciendas keep African slaves? Although I'm not sure this Santera's lineage did not escape from somewhere else way back, I don't know.

                I just thought I would share, but not again for a while.

                Have a good one, take care.

                -Eric
                • Re: Is everybody well?

                  Mon, October 16, 2006 - 8:19 AM
                  Ase Eric:

                  Go to this link and read all postings . It has the story of the Seven African Powers candle (originated in Chicago);

                  www.lukumiunity.org/forums/c...board.cgi

                  There was a group of US slaves, that run to Mexico (mainly from Texas) and their history is well-documented. So no large groups of africans taken there, much less Yorubas. The great majority of Yorubas were taken to Brazil and Cuba, the two countries that had the longest slavery period, before abolition(1888 & 1889) , since Yorubas was the LAST ethnic group enslaved in numbers in the "New World"

                  Ase,

                  Maria d'Osala

                  Ase,
              • Re: Is everybody well?

                Mon, October 16, 2006 - 11:39 PM
                Alafia Everyone,

                I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion. It just serves as a reminder for me to tread carefully on this path of Orisa. The issue of Mexico and African slaves came up and I wanted to share something I'd read a while ago regarding the African precence is Meso-America. As an African-American with supposed ties to the Hermosillo region of Mexico this issue particularly dear to me.

                ******excerpted from www.mexconnect.com/mex_/fea...ndex.html


                "When one thinks of foreign influence within Mexico due to immigration, Spain is the first country that comes to mind. However, Mexico's cultural and ethnic fabric is woven with other foreign ethnic groups that have each contributed to the tapistry that is Mexico..."

                "...Afro-Mexican. By 1650, more than 150,000 blacks and mulattoes lived in Mexico, a figure that actually surpassed Spanish immigration. The Afro-Mexican presence is not widely known. Yet Blacks in Mexico have a long history here, and in both the east coast, (Veracruz) and the west Coast (Costa Chica) there are thriving communities. In Bobby Vaughn's Black Mexico, we explore the Costa Chica.

                With Roberto Rodriguez and Patrisia Gonzales' "African Roots Stretch Deep into Mexico", we explore the still thriving African legacy in Mexico, where Mexicans play African "hand pianos" and perform "the dance of the black people." Mexican "corridos" -- or song-stories -- tell of slave uprisings. And the marimbas of Mexico, as well as those of Central America and Ecuador, all have their origins in Africa."

                ***************** end of excerpts

                Thanks for the reminder I had intended to purchase some of the books mentioned in the article. Also let's not forget there are also scholars who postulate of an African presence in the Americas prior to Columbus's "discovery".

                Good luck, Eric! The advice given thus far has been spot on in my humble opinion.

                Ase,

                Mo
            • Re: Is everybody well?

              Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:26 AM
              Ashe Tomas,

              This story reminds me of a woman that resided in The Bronx ... off of Southern Boulevard...
              She had a temple that she gave spiritual readings and gave elekes... and was shocked that a eleke of Orula was given out as well...(I do not knock other interps of spirituality ) but then to tell people who their guardians where made me raise my eyebrows... one gentleman was told he was a son of Ochun and that his father was Orula....should I go on....?

              Little did people realize that she made alot of money and bought a house in Fla and a car for all her children...and broke out ... She in the same process gave out warriors and Oggun in a sopera...people dressed in regular clothes and a crown of foil to tell them they had santo crowned...

              She kept her business under wraps and money in her pockets...well needles to say she is now deceased and her followers scrambled like eggs...I do know several individuals that went through this.. and will not believe any one else...and I really feel for them ...

              Do homework and research it is the only way...if necessary ask for references...let alone finding thier family line.
          • Re: Is everybody well?

            Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:03 AM
            Alafia & Bendicion!

            I agree with Tomas & Maria in that what you are explaining and trying to descibe are highly confusing. You say that it has been divined that you no longer need Olokun and this troubles me.
            My teachings and comprehension have led me to understand that everybody needs Olokun in their lives. Within Lucumi Olokun is the orisa given to enhance and maintain stability and prosperity in life, your WHOLE LIFE not just for a few years. The Olokun I have has done wonders for my life and Truthfully I have only ever gone to her for help once, the rest of the time she sits peacefully undisturbed ensuring all goes well for me and I have always lived in very quiet and peaceful neighbourhoods.

            As you say it could be that you have a 'fake' but remember Olokun is very powerful and the Ase you are 'feeling' is possibly her way of letting you know that this person is trying to dupe you into getting rid of her so that they can come in and 'control' you.

            You also said that you didn't receive this orisa via a coronation ceremony Thank goodness as I am not aware that anyone is crowned Olokun anymore. As for the chains, if it is Olokun that you have, then they symbolise the fact that Olodumare used chains to keep Olokun at the bottom of the ocean to prevent her from trying to encroach upon the earth and its inhabitants and have no direct bearing or link to slave ships.
            If you can please try to have another reading as what you are being asked to do with your 'Olokun' does not sound correct to me.

            Peace
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Is everybody well?

              Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:19 AM
              That is exactly what I was thinking. To go through the ceremony and receive any Orisha, and then to be told later to throw it away? Hmmmm something doesn't seem right.

              Getting another reading is in order, and by another person. What about the person you received Olokun from? Or another highly respected well known Iyanifa/Babalowo.

              I would pray and take time with this one. Olokun is very deep orisha. To be told you must receive Olokun is pretty important. I wouldn't so easily take my orisha to the lake or river until all of my questions were ironed out. If something is wrong there should be someone who can repair what is wrong. But to get rid of it??? Nope. Because then the questions comes, what do they want you to get next? What aray of work will you need done once you have thrown away your Olokun? 'Control' does come to mind here. Tread lightly but move fast.

              What Iyawo said about Olokun's Ase telling you something, sounds like a word to the wise.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Is everybody well?

                Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:26 AM
                Thank you. I will have Iyanifa recast oracle for me and ask if I should keep Olokun and just discard in the lake the very Catholic statue of Yemoja.

                That is the type of advice I wanted to hear. My gut feeling is that you are right.

                -Eric
                • Re: Is everybody well?

                  Mon, October 16, 2006 - 6:38 AM
                  Alafia Eric!

                  I hope you do get more informative advice from another source.

                  I feel Olokun is special is special and any dealings with her need to be well thought out before being put into action.

                  Peace
                • Re: Is everybody well?

                  Mon, October 16, 2006 - 7:04 PM
                  Alafia .....

                  Now I dont mean to stir it up here but a Iyanifa casting Opele ..... mmmmmmmmm even a Iyefa will only cast a Opele when her husband the Babalawo is only in grave danger or illness ..... since women can not look upon Odu herself .

                  Eric , with due respect seek out a Reputable Babalawo or Santero/a that can give you a reading ..here

                  I have met a few supposive Olorishas from Mexico that have come here to Georgia saying they are Olorishas only for them to discover we know how to remove the Banda ( blindfolds) they use on people and show them they are wrong for thinking they are Olorishas ...

                  Heck I had one try and tell me she was made Olorisha in Mexico I was Like , Really who are your padrinos ??? ( no response to that question ) who is your Orisha ?? she said Oshun ... I said cool what did your thrown look like when you made ocha ... she said like this one ( of course we where in a Bday for Chango and not Oshun ) so I shurgged it off and then asked what her Odu in mano was ... she freaked .... then I asked her who her father was she told me Yemonja ... I said " Cool ... sabes que ... cerre la boca till you can talk with ase!" .... she looked at me and asked me why I said that ... I explained that Oshun's throne usually is in Yellow or Gold ............ Odu of mano comes from eleggua ........and Yemonja ( yemaya) can not be the father orisha to a Oshun since they are both female orishas ....


                  Lessons learned are lessons to live by ...

                  Tomas
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Is everybody well?

                    Tue, October 17, 2006 - 3:07 AM
                    Ase Tomas,

                    There are though many legitimate Olorisas in Mexico. Met them in World conferences. There is a great number of them that has been initiated in Cuba. Actually in Mexico City there is a terreiro of Candomble side by side with a Lukumi Ile.

                    But also seen some oddities coming from Mexico and claiming to be Olorishas.

                    As to the Iyanifa "thang". All Iyanifas initiated in Nigeria that I know (all Abimbola's goddaughters) do throw the opele. And none has a husband, lol.I don't know where Erik is located, but chief Fama is an old and reputable Iyanifa.
                    Still I would caution Erik. Most are very new at divination. And divination has to do with precise interpretation. It takes years to learn.

                    Going back to Amira's advice, I would check it out with a known, reputable, old diviner., someone else.

                    Ase,

                    Maria d'Osala
                    • Re: Is everybody well?

                      Tue, October 17, 2006 - 3:11 AM
                      Ase Erik, Thomas,

                      Just checked. He is in Denver. There is an Ifa temple there, headed by Iya Ta'sha. don't know if she is a Iyanifa, but possible. They are mostly Karade's godchildren I think (traditional).

                      Don't know of any santeros (lukumi) in that area.

                      Ase,

                      Maria d'Osala
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: Is everybody well?

                        Tue, October 17, 2006 - 6:08 AM
                        Bendicion a todos.
                        I think there is a lesson here somewhere. There are people all over the world taking advantage of those in need. It is important not to become a victim of those who feed on others for their own gain. Do your research and find out as much as you can, listen to yourself and your instincts and above all don't rush into anything. In out religion, lineage is fundamental, find out who they are but also where they come from. Ache Erik good luck
                        The other British Iyawo
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Is everybody well?

                    Tue, October 17, 2006 - 7:46 AM
                    Ashe Tomas...
                    Papito that was fierce and Lovely to say...I would have done exactly the same...

                    One has to be very sure and on point ... Besides I do believe and been told by Chango and Obatala that we have brains but we does only a few use it...

                    Especially when it comes to Owo pupo luwo...
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Is everybody well?

                      Tue, October 17, 2006 - 5:21 PM
                      What Tomas and Kevin are talking about, if I am not mistaken, is from Cuba and the Eastern United States, and has no doubt influenced other traditions and is well written about in books and online - but this is far from the only Orisa tradition that has survived or has resurrected in the new world in my experience.

                      When we get told so many times that our own truths, histories, and experiences are not valid, important, or real, it is easy to start believing this. (This statement will probably only ring true to a few people so save your negative comment for another time.) This is sad.

                      It is a repeating theme for me. It seems like the most powerful experiences I have had (both good and bad), nobody else believes can be true. And so I am forced into silence about so many things, things that haunt me every day. And it is a painful silence.

                      If you do not understand what I am talking about here, please do not comment on this.

                      By the way, is everybody well?
                      • Re: Is everybody well?

                        Wed, October 18, 2006 - 3:49 AM
                        Ase Eric,

                        This is why Ori is the most important Orisa of all. It is yours, and personal, and only you and nobody else can choose your path and decide what is good or bad for you. Or what experiences were meaningful or not...

                        I always answer when asked: "what is a good divination?" "It is the one that resonates- that we know in our guts that bad or good news, it is right for us". This is our ori talking to us...

                        In Candomble we do not have this intrisic belief that Ifa divination is the "last word" (as a doctor's diagnosis is not either...). We take in account that there is a human factor in divination (interpretation) and in serious matters, do check twice, three times with different diviners (as you should with doctors before getting into surgery for instance).

                        Anyway, all is well in this "new world" down South...

                        Ase,

                        Maria d'Osala
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                        Re: Is everybody well?

                        Wed, October 18, 2006 - 5:31 AM
                        I am well. How about you?
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: Is everybody well?

                          Thu, October 19, 2006 - 6:19 AM
                          Lovely. (:
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Is everybody well?

                            Sat, October 21, 2006 - 6:58 AM
                            Here's how I resolved this strange ordeal.

                            I took the statue and took off the Olokun and also a shell for Yemoja, and put them in large bowls with water and special herbs.

                            Then I took the parts that are Catholic, the Mother Mary in diomond chains, and also the paper tray, and threw it in the nearest lake like Orunmila said to do. The lake didn't seem to want it, it didn't sink.

                            It seemed to be the right thing to do, although I certainly would have never come up with it on my own. Thank you to everyone who offered helpful advice.
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    Re: Is everybody well?

    Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:32 AM
    Hi,
    I am new to write but not to listen. I am placing my footprint on this sand in hopes that I won't get stepped on yet further walk if not get carried to my destiny
    In saying that I do have a crossroad that I must openly ask for info. Upon getting to receive my Olokun I dreamt of sand in an ocean and a nymph coming out and a vessel being spun of clay. I had a problem with this as I received my Olokun and its many secrets. Afew months went by and my son threw a screw in it as I wondered while cleaning it why the implements were rusting. My godmother did not think much of it. My mom on the other hand said I should inquire as to why this happened. I did not think to persue. Down the road the neck of the vessel cracked and it was slowly leaking water I had it for 2 years like this (maybe less). It was'nt until my mom passed that my sister(daughter of Yemaya) lit a fire under my butt (being nice cause I am in unfamiliar turff) that I started researching vessels. I then saw vessels made of clay on sale sites along with tools that had different amounts of items. What I would like to know more or less is what a I missing? I was given a vessel in which I did insist to pay for ad I love her I just want to make peace with my (not knowing) and to learn from this. thank you for listening.
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      Re: Is everybody well?

      Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:38 AM
      P.S sorry for the misspelled words. 3rd sentence from bottom 15th word is to be "am"
      2nd sentence from bottom 6th word is to be "and"
      thank you again
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Is everybody well?

        Wed, October 18, 2006 - 9:51 AM
        G

        It's not clear to me what you are asking.

        Olokun is usually kept in a covered clay pot, a tinaja, like a big cookie jar or urn. Sometimes it's plain clay, sometimes with shells, sometimes fine porcelin. It depends on the house and line and tastes of the people involved.

        Also the tools, stones, and shells inside vary a bit depending on the line of ocha.

        There can be a little rust in the water if the tools aren't all lead, some bits may rust.

        Really whichever way is fine as long as that is the established tradition of your line and the ceremonies were done basically correctly.

        Hope that helped.

        Jason
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          Re: Is everybody well?

          Wed, October 18, 2006 - 10:36 AM
          I realize that this is a riddle maybe only I have to solve I was seeing if any input might shed some light on what is unclear to me. As you say it depends on what the lineage is etc that makes it even crazier because if someone is doing something not right how can I know if they are the only ones that I have to compare it to? Although my insides are showing me to ask around see what is what thats all.
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          Re: Is everybody well?

          Wed, October 18, 2006 - 10:59 AM
          Obviously nothing is established and I know this from my heart and I am starting all over again trying to sort things out. I do not mean to do this one on one but you responded and I appreciate that just one more thing. What did you mean by line of Orisha referring to the tools etc?
          By the way your archery is very well noted.

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